Or again, in a ship, if a man having the power to do what he likes, has no intelligence or skill in navigation, do you see what will happen to him and to his fellow-sailors?
ALCIBIADES: Yes; I see that they will all perish.
SOCRATES: And in like manner, in a state, and where there is any power and authority which is wanting in virtue, will not misfortune, in like manner, ensue?
ALCIBIADES: Certainly.
SOCRATES: Not tyrannical power, then, my good Alcibiades, should be the aim either of individuals or states, if they would be happy, but virtue.
ALCIBIADES: That is true.
SOCRATES: And before they have virtue, to be commanded by a superior is better for men as well as for children? (Compare Arist. Pol.)
ALCIBIADES: That is evident.
SOCRATES: And that which is better is also nobler?
ALCIBIADES: True.
SOCRATES: And what is nobler is more becoming?
ALCIBIADES: Certainly.
SOCRATES: Then to the bad man slavery is more becoming, because better?
ALCIBIADES: True.
SOCRATES: Then vice is only suited to a slave?
ALCIBIADES: Yes.
SOCRATES: And virtue to a freeman?
ALCIBIADES: Yes.
SOCRATES: And, O my friend, is not the condition of a slave to be avoided?
ALCIBIADES: Certainly, Socrates.
SOCRATES: And are you now conscious of your own state? And do you know whether you are a freeman or not?
ALCIBIADES: I think that I am very conscious indeed of my own state.
SOCRATES: And do you know how to escape out of a state which I do not even like to name to my beauty?
ALCIBIADES: Yes, I do.
SOCRATES: How?
ALCIBIADES: By your help, Socrates.
SOCRATES: That is not well said, Alcibiades.
ALCIBIADES: What ought I to have said?
SOCRATES: By the help of God.
ALCIBIADES: I agree; and I further say, that our relations are likely to be reversed. From this day forward, I must and will follow you as you have followed me; I will be the disciple, and you shall be my master.
SOCRATES: O that is rare! My love breeds another love: and so like the stork I shall be cherished by the bird whom I have hatched.
ALCIBIADES: Strange, but true; and henceforward I shall begin to think about justice.
SOCRATES: And I hope that you will persist; although I have fears, not because I doubt you; but I see the power of the state, which may be too much for both of us.
Greater Hippias{2}
Introduction
The Greater Hippias (or What is Beauty) is one of the dialogues of Plato. It belongs to the Early Dialogues, written while the author was still young. Its precise date is uncertain, although a date of circa 390 BCE has been suggested.
Authenticity
The authorship of Hippias Major has long been in dispute. Although some works previously attributed to Plato have been ruled as not authentic, this is one where authorship has still not been firmly established, though academic consensus appears to be drifting towards favouring its authenticity. The argument is summarized in (Sider 1977): "Dorothy Tarrant is the foremost advocate for the cause of spuriousness: cf. her edition of The Hippias Major Attributed to Plato (Cambridge, 1928). Opposing her in a series of articles is G.M.A. Grube, who wrote in 1926 and 1927. W. K. C. Guthrie, in A History of Greek Philosophy (Cambridge 1975) also argues for its genuineness." Sider, writing in 1992 states that G.R.Ledger, in Re-counting Plato (Oxford 1989) carried out a computer text analysis and though not conclusive "On balance the evidence for genuineness is fairly convincing". He goes on to state that amongst other recent work, P. Woodruff, Plato: Hippias Major (Oxford 1982) also argues for authenticity and dates the document to "around 390" BCE, while C.H. Kahn, OSAP 3 (1985) is the lone modern figure maintaining spuriousness. Of online material, The Internet Encyclopaedia of Philosophy states "Of those [of Plato's works] we listed as authentic, above (in the early group), only the Hippias Major continues occasionally to be listed as inauthentic. The strongest evidence against the authenticity of the Hippias Major is the fact that it is never mentioned in any of the ancient sources. In summary then, although early 20th century scholarship argued that it was spurious, latest research indicates that on the balance it is more likely authentic than not.
Personalities
Socrates; Hippias of Elis: Hippias was a well known Sophist, originally from Elis. Known throughout Greece, he was reputed to have mastered mathematics, astronomy and rhetoric; he boasted that he could speak on any subject at Olympia without preparation. He is presented by Plato, perhaps somewhat caricaturized, as vain, narrow, and of limited intellect; much as he is in Hippias Minor.
The dialogue: define beauty
In Hippias Major, Socrates and Hippias set out to find a definition for "beauty", but are destined to fail due to their inability to formulate an answer which encompasses the entire concept. It is important to keep in mind, however, that the actual Greek term that is used in the dialogue is "kalos", which as an adjective often means fine or noble as well as beautiful. For this reason, translators like Paul Woodruff typically translate the term "the Fine" instead of "Beauty."
Introductory scene: Hippias meets Socrates
Hippias, whose business had kept him away from Athens for a long time, arrives in the city to give a lecture at Pheidostratus's school in the next few days. He meets Socrates, and the latter asks him why such a precious and wise man as Hippias has deprived the Athenians of his presence for so long. It is, explains the great Sophist, because his native Elis was so in need of his services, and entrusted him with several important diplomatic missions to different cities; notably in Sparta. He made use of his travels throughout the Greek world to educate a large number of youth and earn large sums of money. But one example was the small town of Inycus, in Sicily, where the modest inhabitants sacrificed a good part of their savings to see their children educated.
Socrates ironically assures him that this is all admirable. And if Hippias has spent such a large part of his time in Sparta, he asks, this must be where he earned the most? But Hippias demurs: he did not touch an obolus there. It was not because the Spartans did not wish the best possible education for their children, and not because they did not comprehend the true value of Hippias. The only reason was that "it is not the inherited usage of the Lacedaemonians to change their laws or to educate their children differently from what is customary. "However, Socrates emphasized, the law is precisely made for use and happiness of the citizens, two things to which Hippias would have been greatly able to contribute. By being too attached to the law and refusing the services of Hippias, the Spartans contradict the aim of their own laws and this therefore could be considered as being unlawful.
Hippias, thus suitably flattered, agrees with Socrates. The latter then asks him then how he nevertheless had so much success in this severe city of Laconia. It is not, Hippias answers, for his knowledge of arithmetic or astronomy, but rather "They are very fond of hearing about the genealogies of heroes and men, Socrates, and the foundations of cities in ancient times and, in short, about antiquity in general...[these being] beautiful pursuits,"
Socrates reveals his problem
Socrates